Aloha from Garden City GBC in Roanoke. I’m writing as a concerned pastor and I just wanted to make a comment on your blog. Please allow me to say that I am deeply concerned about some of the latest trends in the FGBC that involve heading towards the contemplative mysticism of many in the spiritual formation movement. Lately on these blogs, we’ve seen endorsements of Lectio Divina and Henri Nouwen and now, for a second time, this clip of contemplative leader Brennan Manning talking about his thousands of hours of meditation and the silence. I’m just concerned as to whether you and others are aware of where he seems to be coming from in his promotion of these things. Please consider these concerns:
In Discipleship Journal Issue 100 1997 page 78 in an interview, Brennan Manning recommends William Shannon’s book, Silence on Fire and Thomas Keating’s book on centering prayer, Open Mind, Open Heart. In Silence on Fire, Shannon blasts the Christian, Biblical God. Page 109, 110 “This is a typical patriarchal notion of God. He is the God of Noah who sees people deep in sin, repents that He made them and resolves to destroy them. He is the God of the desert who sends snakes to bite His people because they murmured against Him. He is the God of David who practically decimates a people … He is the God who exacts the last drop of blood from His Son, so that His just anger, evoked by sin, may be appeased. This God whose moods alternate between graciousness and fierce anger. This God does not exist.” Please note Manning uses this quote nearly word for word in his book Above All [pg. 58]
Manning mischaracterizes many who, along with many in the FGBC, do see scripture as sufficient revelation concerning what god thinks and what He wants for our lives:
“I am deeply distressed by what I only can call in our Christian culture the idolatry of the Scriptures. For many Christians, the Bible is not a pointer to God but God himself. In a word—bibliolatry. God cannot be confined within the covers of a leather-bound book. I develop a nasty rash around people who speak as if mere scrutiny of its pages will reveal precisely how God thinks and precisely what God wants.”—Brennan Manning, Signature of Jesus, pp. 188-189
Does Brennan Manning promote Eastern mysticism and contemplative spirituality? This quote, along with others I could share uses the exact terminology in question:
“Herein lies the secret, I believe, of the inner life of Jesus. Christ’s communion with Abba in the inner sanctuary of His soul transformed His vision of reality, enabling Him to perceive God’s love and care behind the complexities of life. Practicing the presence helps us to discern the providence of God at work especially in those dark hours when the signature of Jesus is being traced in our flesh. (You may wish to try it right now. Lower the book, center down, and offer yourself to the indwelling God.)” From Signature of Jesus – Brennan Manning
In Abba’s Child, Brennan Manning says that Dr. Beatrice Bruteau is a”trustworthy guide to contemplative consciousness.”
Who is Beatrice Bruteau and what does she believe?
She is the founder of The School for Contemplation, and she believes God is within every human being. She wrote the book, What We Can Learn from the East
“We have realized ourselves as the Self that says only I AM, with no predicate following, not “I am a this” or “I have that quality.” Only unlimited, absolute I AM” [A Song That Goes On Singing - Interview with B.Bruteau.].
When Brennan Manning says she is trustworthy, does he mean we can trust her when she says we are all “I AM“?
Does Brennan Manning believe that God is in every human being?
In Signature of Jesus he writes:
“Contemplative prayer is nothing other than coming into consciousness of what is already there.”
“During a conference on contemplative prayer, the question was put to Thomas Merton: ‘How can we best help people to attain union with God?’ His answer was very clear: ‘We must tell them that they are already united with God.’ Contemplative prayer is nothing other than coming into consciousness of what is already there.” (Signature of Jesus – quote by William Shannon)
Abba’s Child by Brennan Manning; page 125 – “[I]f I find Christ, I will find my true self and if I find my true self, I will find Christ.”
Dr. Oberbrunner, you and I have spoken in the past and I was able to share some concerns. I thank you for allowing me to do that now as well. It is my prayer that many of us will reconsider elevating teachers like Nouwen, Foster, Merton, and Manning because they bring to the table some teachings that are directly linked to and involved Eastern mysticism and Roman catholic contemplation practices that are not biblical and in some cases, anti-biblical in their doctrine. I’d love to hear your comments about these concerns.
In Christ, Steve
Kary Oberbrunner said on Jul 3, 2009 at 8:12 am
Steve,
I appreciate your respectful tone I really do. You did a great job of identifying the fact that we as humans are ALL fallen and broken and not divine.
By posting a video clip I am not endorsing everything a person in a video represents. If I did, then no human could be in any video because we are all broken and deceitful and evil and distorted.
When I use a quote or a clip I am merely using it to stimulate further thought which MUST be digested and interpretted through the source of Truth. The Scriptures.
For more on my view of Truth, truth, and quoting or posting clips please read some past posts below. I believe that you will find my view consistent with the rest of Scriptures and especially the Apostle Paul’s strategy of cultural analysis.
Recently, I’ve received a couple attacks via Internet. Evidently, a few heresy hunter sites have primarily targeted me for a quote in my book CALLED. Unbeknowst to me I quoted an author who has been identified with mysticism and New Age, specifically Marianne Williamson.
You probably know the quote too. Why? Because it’s in a couple movies (Akeelah and the Bee & Coach Carter). It was also quoted by Nelson Mandela in his 1994 speech.
With all sincerity, I am not recommending Marianne Williamson as a wholesome author. In fact, stay away from her writings. Obviously I do, otherwise I probably would have recognized her for who she was before I quoted her.
I do have a word though for the heresy hunters though. These self-established watchdogs attacked me for half a dozen other quotes of authors who are less than perfect.
Here are some of my quick thoughts on that:
CALLED is nearly 200 pages long, written in order to demonstrate the depth of discipleship. It presents an orthodox view of Jesus and it’s backed by many sound Evangelicals. There are over 500 references of Scriptures used to create the model of discipleship presented in the book. And yes, I do quote some contemporary authors too.
I guess I never got the memo that we shouldn’t quote any human author who is imperfect. I never got the memo that it’s wrong to agree with one sentence of an author and not an author’s entire work as a whole.
It seems to me that the Holy Spirit never got the memo either.
Why?
The Holy Spirit “moved” Paul to quote the Greek playwright Menander in 1 Corinthians 15:33: “Bad company corrupts good morals.” If you read Menander’s one hundred plus comedies I think you’ll find out that Menander is not the squeaky clean playwright that would be touring on the Evangelical circuit. In other words, the Apostle Paul (and the Holy Spirit as well) found one of Menader’s sentences inspiring, even inspiring enough to put it in the canon of Scripture. Yet, obviously other of Menander’s works are not.
This inclusion represents a core principle I discuss in my new book by Zondervan, The Fine Line, out out this December. The principle suggests that there is truth out in the world, via literature, nature, culture, and art. It is the follower of Jesus’ job to do good exegesis and discover what that truth is. Of course, our standard of TRUTH is the Scripture and we need to do this exegesis through that lens, relying upon the Holy Spirit and our community of faith to help us in this journey.
Paul embodied this type of mindset, evidenced several times in Acts 17 at Mars Hill. Paul demonstrated his knowledge of the Greek culture by quoting two poets, Epimenides (“in him we live and move and have our being”) and Aratus of Soli (“we are his offspring”).[1]
Paul only partially quoted Aratus for obvious reasons: the reference to Zeus. (“It is with Zeus that every one of us in every way has to do, for we are also his offspring” (Phaenonlena 5).14
Paul models good exegesis. He subjugates culture and literature to the lens of Scripture. Yet, he is not fearful to quote less than perfect human authors, when they write truth.
Those who know me and my ministry know that I do maintain an an orthodox view of the Scriptures and the faith as a whole. I find it sad that heresy hunters reach into my writings, extract a few quotes, and then attack me for the linkage of these quotes to less than perfect authors.
In the end, I can’t control people’s comments about me or my writings. I do want to apologize for the quote from Williamson because of who and what she represents. But I am accountable to the elders at my church. And ultimately God. It is not men who I am trying to please, only the Lord. And that is my hope. And now I am done writing on this subject.
NIV 2 Corinthians 10:18 For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.
[1] Herrick, Greg. Is the Bible the Only Revelation from God?” Bible.org http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=678#P53_12365. Accessed, September 27, 2007.
Epimenides’ quote is taken from his poem Cretica Aratus’ quote is taken from Phaenonlena 5); which is also found in Cleanthes’s (331-233 B.C.) earlier Hymn to Zeus, line 4.
“2nd Missionary Journey. Athens.” The Boston Christian Bible Study Resources. http://www.bcbsr.com/books/acts17b.html. Accessed, September27, 2007.
14 Longenecker, “Acts,” 476; See also I. Howard Marshall, Acts, The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, ed. R.V.G. Tasker, vol. 5 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1980), 288-89. He states that the first expression “for in him we live and move and have our being” is found in a ninth century Syriac writer who cites it in the passage in which it was found. The second comment, “we are his offspring,” is more likely to be from Aratus, but it is also found in a slightly different form in Cleanthes, Hymn to Zeus; Keener, IVP Background, comments on Acts 17:29: “The quote from the Greek poet Epimenides (v. 28) appears in Jewish anthologies of proof texts useful for showing pagans the truth about God, and Paul may have learned it from such a text.”
Yesterday, I received a very healthy phone call from Pastor Steven Mitchell, associated with Power to Stand Ministries. Steven had written a 15 plus paper attacking me and my teachings.
Steven humbly and sincerely apologized for his manner of attack. He asked me to make his apology known. I fully accepted and our conversation was quite transformational. I acknowledged his heart for truth and shared about how his writings allowed me to re-examine myself. I believe it was good all around.
We closed our conversation mutually praying for each other. I thought the whole conversation was evident of God’s love and the beautiful process He has established regarding confession and forgiveness.
How could I not forgive? After all, I am the one so often in need of forgiveness for my own sin.
So my thought of the day…
If you’ve been offended, then seek reconciliation.
If you’ve offended, seek forgiveness.
And yes…especially in the digital world.
Adam K said on Jul 3, 2009 at 8:46 am
Those are two long posts . . . good stuff though. Grace and peace to both of you, Kary and Steve.
It seems that “context is king” when peering into and examining the lives of others. To add onto Kary’s thought of the day, how often do I misunderstand others or are misunderstood through the use of isolated or limited information?
Thanks, Dr. Oberbrunner, for your prompt and thorugh response. i have read the two blog posts before and I see much of what you are saying there but don’t really see a parallel with quoting false teachers who are in the church. That’s another issue but i just wanted to ask you a question becasue you brought up those two posts. i’m just curious as to whether you lump my concerns in with so-called “heresy hunter sites”? this has been on my mind since you first responded with those posts. i was just wondering and thankls again for ltting me reply.
Adam K, thank you for the crucial reminder that context is key. the only thing I ould have to say regarding my continued concerns about Manning and the others I mentioned is that, although I shared a few quotes, there is more than sufficient evidence that manning has these mystical leanings in the bulk of his writings. i’m just concerned about that fact is all.
thank you both, Steve
Lori said on Jul 3, 2009 at 10:13 am
Very good conversation here, guys. I can easily see both sides of this healthy disagreement. I agree that a diligent student of the Truth should examine all information and quoted text in light of the Scriptures. My only concern is that those outside of the body of Christ will see those quotes, know the other authors work more than the Truth of Scripture, and lump the whole of it into the “all roads lead to God” category. And then again, they may just not even give it much thought at all, accept the quotes at face value, as intended, and see the real intended meaning after all. Just some thoughts….
Dear Dr. Oberbrunner,
Aloha from Garden City GBC in Roanoke. I’m writing as a concerned pastor and I just wanted to make a comment on your blog. Please allow me to say that I am deeply concerned about some of the latest trends in the FGBC that involve heading towards the contemplative mysticism of many in the spiritual formation movement. Lately on these blogs, we’ve seen endorsements of Lectio Divina and Henri Nouwen and now, for a second time, this clip of contemplative leader Brennan Manning talking about his thousands of hours of meditation and the silence. I’m just concerned as to whether you and others are aware of where he seems to be coming from in his promotion of these things. Please consider these concerns:
In Discipleship Journal Issue 100 1997 page 78 in an interview, Brennan Manning recommends William Shannon’s book, Silence on Fire and Thomas Keating’s book on centering prayer, Open Mind, Open Heart. In Silence on Fire, Shannon blasts the Christian, Biblical God. Page 109, 110 “This is a typical patriarchal notion of God. He is the God of Noah who sees people deep in sin, repents that He made them and resolves to destroy them. He is the God of the desert who sends snakes to bite His people because they murmured against Him. He is the God of David who practically decimates a people … He is the God who exacts the last drop of blood from His Son, so that His just anger, evoked by sin, may be appeased. This God whose moods alternate between graciousness and fierce anger. This God does not exist.” Please note Manning uses this quote nearly word for word in his book Above All [pg. 58]
Manning mischaracterizes many who, along with many in the FGBC, do see scripture as sufficient revelation concerning what god thinks and what He wants for our lives:
“I am deeply distressed by what I only can call in our Christian culture the idolatry of the Scriptures. For many Christians, the Bible is not a pointer to God but God himself. In a word—bibliolatry. God cannot be confined within the covers of a leather-bound book. I develop a nasty rash around people who speak as if mere scrutiny of its pages will reveal precisely how God thinks and precisely what God wants.”—Brennan Manning, Signature of Jesus, pp. 188-189
Does Brennan Manning promote Eastern mysticism and contemplative spirituality? This quote, along with others I could share uses the exact terminology in question:
“Herein lies the secret, I believe, of the inner life of Jesus. Christ’s communion with Abba in the inner sanctuary of His soul transformed His vision of reality, enabling Him to perceive God’s love and care behind the complexities of life. Practicing the presence helps us to discern the providence of God at work especially in those dark hours when the signature of Jesus is being traced in our flesh. (You may wish to try it right now. Lower the book, center down, and offer yourself to the indwelling God.)” From Signature of Jesus – Brennan Manning
In Abba’s Child, Brennan Manning says that Dr. Beatrice Bruteau is a”trustworthy guide to contemplative consciousness.”
Who is Beatrice Bruteau and what does she believe?
She is the founder of The School for Contemplation, and she believes God is within every human being. She wrote the book, What We Can Learn from the East
“We have realized ourselves as the Self that says only I AM, with no predicate following, not “I am a this” or “I have that quality.” Only unlimited, absolute I AM” [A Song That Goes On Singing - Interview with B.Bruteau.].
When Brennan Manning says she is trustworthy, does he mean we can trust her when she says we are all “I AM“?
Does Brennan Manning believe that God is in every human being?
In Signature of Jesus he writes:
“Contemplative prayer is nothing other than coming into consciousness of what is already there.”
“During a conference on contemplative prayer, the question was put to Thomas Merton: ‘How can we best help people to attain union with God?’ His answer was very clear: ‘We must tell them that they are already united with God.’ Contemplative prayer is nothing other than coming into consciousness of what is already there.” (Signature of Jesus – quote by William Shannon)
Abba’s Child by Brennan Manning; page 125 – “[I]f I find Christ, I will find my true self and if I find my true self, I will find Christ.”
Dr. Oberbrunner, you and I have spoken in the past and I was able to share some concerns. I thank you for allowing me to do that now as well. It is my prayer that many of us will reconsider elevating teachers like Nouwen, Foster, Merton, and Manning because they bring to the table some teachings that are directly linked to and involved Eastern mysticism and Roman catholic contemplation practices that are not biblical and in some cases, anti-biblical in their doctrine. I’d love to hear your comments about these concerns.
In Christ, Steve
Steve,
I appreciate your respectful tone I really do. You did a great job of identifying the fact that we as humans are ALL fallen and broken and not divine.
By posting a video clip I am not endorsing everything a person in a video represents. If I did, then no human could be in any video because we are all broken and deceitful and evil and distorted.
When I use a quote or a clip I am merely using it to stimulate further thought which MUST be digested and interpretted through the source of Truth. The Scriptures.
For more on my view of Truth, truth, and quoting or posting clips please read some past posts below. I believe that you will find my view consistent with the rest of Scriptures and especially the Apostle Paul’s strategy of cultural analysis.
Does this help Steve?
http://www.karyoberbrunner.com/uncategorized/my-turn-to-apologize
http://www.karyoberbrunner.com/uncategorized/apology-accepted
Recently, I’ve received a couple attacks via Internet. Evidently, a few heresy hunter sites have primarily targeted me for a quote in my book CALLED. Unbeknowst to me I quoted an author who has been identified with mysticism and New Age, specifically Marianne Williamson.
You probably know the quote too. Why? Because it’s in a couple movies (Akeelah and the Bee & Coach Carter). It was also quoted by Nelson Mandela in his 1994 speech.
With all sincerity, I am not recommending Marianne Williamson as a wholesome author. In fact, stay away from her writings. Obviously I do, otherwise I probably would have recognized her for who she was before I quoted her.
I do have a word though for the heresy hunters though. These self-established watchdogs attacked me for half a dozen other quotes of authors who are less than perfect.
Here are some of my quick thoughts on that:
CALLED is nearly 200 pages long, written in order to demonstrate the depth of discipleship. It presents an orthodox view of Jesus and it’s backed by many sound Evangelicals. There are over 500 references of Scriptures used to create the model of discipleship presented in the book. And yes, I do quote some contemporary authors too.
I guess I never got the memo that we shouldn’t quote any human author who is imperfect. I never got the memo that it’s wrong to agree with one sentence of an author and not an author’s entire work as a whole.
It seems to me that the Holy Spirit never got the memo either.
Why?
The Holy Spirit “moved” Paul to quote the Greek playwright Menander in 1 Corinthians 15:33: “Bad company corrupts good morals.” If you read Menander’s one hundred plus comedies I think you’ll find out that Menander is not the squeaky clean playwright that would be touring on the Evangelical circuit. In other words, the Apostle Paul (and the Holy Spirit as well) found one of Menader’s sentences inspiring, even inspiring enough to put it in the canon of Scripture. Yet, obviously other of Menander’s works are not.
This inclusion represents a core principle I discuss in my new book by Zondervan, The Fine Line, out out this December. The principle suggests that there is truth out in the world, via literature, nature, culture, and art. It is the follower of Jesus’ job to do good exegesis and discover what that truth is. Of course, our standard of TRUTH is the Scripture and we need to do this exegesis through that lens, relying upon the Holy Spirit and our community of faith to help us in this journey.
Paul embodied this type of mindset, evidenced several times in Acts 17 at Mars Hill. Paul demonstrated his knowledge of the Greek culture by quoting two poets, Epimenides (“in him we live and move and have our being”) and Aratus of Soli (“we are his offspring”).[1]
Paul only partially quoted Aratus for obvious reasons: the reference to Zeus. (“It is with Zeus that every one of us in every way has to do, for we are also his offspring” (Phaenonlena 5).14
Paul models good exegesis. He subjugates culture and literature to the lens of Scripture. Yet, he is not fearful to quote less than perfect human authors, when they write truth.
Those who know me and my ministry know that I do maintain an an orthodox view of the Scriptures and the faith as a whole. I find it sad that heresy hunters reach into my writings, extract a few quotes, and then attack me for the linkage of these quotes to less than perfect authors.
In the end, I can’t control people’s comments about me or my writings. I do want to apologize for the quote from Williamson because of who and what she represents. But I am accountable to the elders at my church. And ultimately God. It is not men who I am trying to please, only the Lord. And that is my hope. And now I am done writing on this subject.
NIV 2 Corinthians 10:18 For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.
[1] Herrick, Greg. Is the Bible the Only Revelation from God?” Bible.org http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=678#P53_12365. Accessed, September 27, 2007.
Epimenides’ quote is taken from his poem Cretica Aratus’ quote is taken from Phaenonlena 5); which is also found in Cleanthes’s (331-233 B.C.) earlier Hymn to Zeus, line 4.
“2nd Missionary Journey. Athens.” The Boston Christian Bible Study Resources. http://www.bcbsr.com/books/acts17b.html. Accessed, September27, 2007.
14 Longenecker, “Acts,” 476; See also I. Howard Marshall, Acts, The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, ed. R.V.G. Tasker, vol. 5 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1980), 288-89. He states that the first expression “for in him we live and move and have our being” is found in a ninth century Syriac writer who cites it in the passage in which it was found. The second comment, “we are his offspring,” is more likely to be from Aratus, but it is also found in a slightly different form in Cleanthes, Hymn to Zeus; Keener, IVP Background, comments on Acts 17:29: “The quote from the Greek poet Epimenides (v. 28) appears in Jewish anthologies of proof texts useful for showing pagans the truth about God, and Paul may have learned it from such a text.”
Yesterday, I received a very healthy phone call from Pastor Steven Mitchell, associated with Power to Stand Ministries. Steven had written a 15 plus paper attacking me and my teachings.
Steven humbly and sincerely apologized for his manner of attack. He asked me to make his apology known. I fully accepted and our conversation was quite transformational. I acknowledged his heart for truth and shared about how his writings allowed me to re-examine myself. I believe it was good all around.
We closed our conversation mutually praying for each other. I thought the whole conversation was evident of God’s love and the beautiful process He has established regarding confession and forgiveness.
How could I not forgive? After all, I am the one so often in need of forgiveness for my own sin.
So my thought of the day…
If you’ve been offended, then seek reconciliation.
If you’ve offended, seek forgiveness.
And yes…especially in the digital world.
Those are two long posts . . . good stuff though. Grace and peace to both of you, Kary and Steve.
It seems that “context is king” when peering into and examining the lives of others. To add onto Kary’s thought of the day, how often do I misunderstand others or are misunderstood through the use of isolated or limited information?
Thanks, Dr. Oberbrunner, for your prompt and thorugh response. i have read the two blog posts before and I see much of what you are saying there but don’t really see a parallel with quoting false teachers who are in the church. That’s another issue but i just wanted to ask you a question becasue you brought up those two posts. i’m just curious as to whether you lump my concerns in with so-called “heresy hunter sites”? this has been on my mind since you first responded with those posts. i was just wondering and thankls again for ltting me reply.
Adam K, thank you for the crucial reminder that context is key. the only thing I ould have to say regarding my continued concerns about Manning and the others I mentioned is that, although I shared a few quotes, there is more than sufficient evidence that manning has these mystical leanings in the bulk of his writings. i’m just concerned about that fact is all.
thank you both, Steve
Very good conversation here, guys. I can easily see both sides of this healthy disagreement. I agree that a diligent student of the Truth should examine all information and quoted text in light of the Scriptures. My only concern is that those outside of the body of Christ will see those quotes, know the other authors work more than the Truth of Scripture, and lump the whole of it into the “all roads lead to God” category. And then again, they may just not even give it much thought at all, accept the quotes at face value, as intended, and see the real intended meaning after all. Just some thoughts….
Dr. Oberbrunner,
again, in friendly jest, I ask thee: Do you consider me among those you would label “heresy hunter”? indulge me, kind sir…
Doesn’t matter what I think.
Galatians 1:10
Romans 14:4